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the pentagon's budget and still protect national security. former defense undersecretary michelle flournoy, if identify got that right -- michelle flournoy, i beg your pardon, she penned an op-ed in the wall street journal this week. joining us is aforementioned michele flournoy. michelle, or undersecretary, which ever you prefer -- >> michelle, please. >> i thought your piece was terrific. sequester or not, defense department is going to lose 10% of its budget and you think there are good ways to do it. walk us through some of the key points. >> i do think the defense budget will come under pressure, even if we do get a deal. there are ways to reduce costs go after the defense enterprise rather than balance the budget on the back of the force. first cutting unnecessary overhead. the pentagon and d.o.d. has grown by more than 100,000 civilians in the last decade. we can pare those back now that we're coming out of a period of war. >> i thought your civilian argument was great. we've been through these wars and you're saying you can take it right back down without losing any national securi
the pentagon. and really ambiguity on israel, too. is that possible that's why he was picked? >> well, actually, i think even more revealing when he said it doesn't matter what i think, i'm not in a policy role. in other words, obama has chosen a stooge who has no independent thoughts, who is not going to be in the way, who is simply going to be there as a plug so that he can continue to slash the pentagon budget. this was a five-car pile-up, larry. this was a fiasco, a debacle, whatever you want to call it. what happened in the hearing today is this shifted from an issue of ideology to an issue of competence. would we be willing to trust this man if he went in to go talk to the russians, if he went in to the middle east. i don't think anyone in good conscience looking at him can say he's prepared, he's sober, he has a grasp of these issues. it was an embarrassing performance. the worst in my lifetime, larry, and i'm not alone. a lot of mainstream reporters saying this was really bad. >> aw shucks, jennifer, i can think of many in your lifetime. >> oh, not as bad as this. >> i want to ask you o
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